Breaking Through Gatekeepers: The Unconventional Tactics of Craig Ingram

[00:00:00] Entertainment, Insight, Don't Take Life Too Serious. Welcome to Brainsky Unleashed.

[00:00:03] All right, so today we are being joined by Craig Ingram, Craig T. Ingram. Craig happens to be a very long time friend of mine and he's extremely successful when it comes to medical device sales.

[00:00:16] I was with him at the JT Fox mega success show. He conned me into going, to be perfectly honest. I kind of didn't think it would be worth going. I had to eat a lot of crow on that one.

[00:00:27] But with that, let's just jump right in. Craig, welcome to the show and thanks so much for doing this.

[00:00:32] Yeah, you bet. It's fun. I love doing podcasts. I've done a few now and seems like more and more opportunities to present themselves.

[00:00:40] So it's fun to be on a podcast with somebody who I've known 22 years or 20 years, 21 years almost.

[00:00:46] I mean, you really got that down. How many months is that? You're so unprepared.

[00:00:50] So unprepared.

[00:00:51] All right. So, you know, I was thinking as I was putting this together and I thought, you know,

[00:00:56] you're I know you're pretty well. So I kind of want to ask you, you sort of have a mix of

[00:01:02] entrepreneur and entrepreneur at this point, having been very successful in medical sales.

[00:01:08] Can you maybe talk about the differences in those preneurial modalities?

[00:01:12] I'll make the word up as it applies to working for a company versus being in the driver's seat of your own.

[00:01:17] Yeah. Gosh, let's see. Twenty six years in health tech, med tech, started in the med tech industry when I was a sophomore in college,

[00:01:29] was a basically an independent sales rep and started a chapter S corporation and started selling medical devices in between classes when I was going to college when I lived in Chicago.

[00:01:39] OK, so that that kind of explains your background. But you've sort of been that entrepreneur.

[00:01:45] In other words, having to to take a lot of the things you've learned about running your own business and applying it to

[00:01:51] positions where you've worked inside of a corporation, but you also have worked for yourself.

[00:01:57] I mean, what are some of those differences between the two from a medical sales standpoint or just a general sales standpoint?

[00:02:03] So selling in corporate America, there is a hierarchy. There are processes. There are unwritten rules. Right.

[00:02:12] And some of those things are actually really good. They bring a lot of value. They keep you on track.

[00:02:18] And some of those things are what I call the kryptonite in business. Right. They're not good things.

[00:02:23] From an entrepreneur standpoint, you're doing what you want, what you want, how you want.

[00:02:29] You can't do that in corporate America because you're seen as somebody who is on road.

[00:02:39] And again, they have their positives and negatives, you know, ultra high network people.

[00:02:45] The overwhelming vast majority of them are are entrepreneurs. Right. They own their own companies.

[00:02:52] They're independent contractors. They're doing their own thing.

[00:02:56] An entrepreneur is what I've been mostly, to be quite honest with you, whether it's working in

[00:03:03] Johnson and Johnson for 10 years or venture capital based startups like I have, you know, for the last, gosh, almost 16 years now.

[00:03:11] And the benefits of that really is that if you're effective and efficient, what you do on both the entrepreneur and entrepreneurial

[00:03:20] standpoint, you're going to make money, you're going to build real relationships and you are going to be very effective in your work.

[00:03:27] And I've been fortunate to do that. So if if there was somebody who's out there listening and they're very new to sales,

[00:03:34] med tech sales in general, they work for a corporation.

[00:03:38] What advice would you give them as to how to be successful?

[00:03:40] I would I would do it would be two parts. Number one, invest in yourself, invest in your craft, whatever your craft is.

[00:03:46] And if it's going to be sales or selling, invest in learning how to do that art.

[00:03:52] And I say art because it's an art and a science, but it's mostly an art and it comes with experience.

[00:03:57] It comes with error. It comes with trials and it comes with small micro successes that ultimately lead to large successes.

[00:04:05] But if you don't invest in yourself, you're not going to master your craft. And that's number one.

[00:04:11] Number two, follow the chain of command. Right. But don't lose your soul. Right.

[00:04:17] As Toby Mac says, you know, you can gain the whole world and lose your soul. But don't don't do that. Right.

[00:04:21] You don't have to drink the Cortaculi. You don't have to be the biggest kiss ass in the world.

[00:04:26] You don't have to be a yes person. If you give challenge, get challenge.

[00:04:31] Are most people going to be upset with you? Yeah, because they're not comfortable in their own skin with their own skill sets.

[00:04:39] And they can be threatened by that. And that's happened to me over and over and over again.

[00:04:43] I've been fired from jobs for the most ridiculous reasons on the planet.

[00:04:47] And when you really boil it down, it's because the person was not comfortable with their skill sets and abilities and they were threatened.

[00:04:54] That's really what it comes down to, because I can take any type of health tech, med tech, pharmaceutical technology, biotechnology, not having any experience, quote unquote, with that background.

[00:05:07] And I will find a way to start getting customers from scratch.

[00:05:13] I've done it over and over and over and over again.

[00:05:16] And so you don't have to have that background. So I would just say, follow the chain of command.

[00:05:22] Don't be a yes man. But yet at the same time, best in your craft.

[00:05:26] So when you say invest in your craft, I mean, you know, that can mean a lot of things.

[00:05:30] Are you saying, you know, buy books or are you saying just watch YouTube videos?

[00:05:34] Are you saying go out and get your teeth kicked in by every gatekeeper there is and get rejected a thousand times until you're comfortable with it?

[00:05:41] I mean, you know, what would tactics like what are the like the top three tactics that you could say if you do this right now would give you the best benefit as far as working on your craft?

[00:05:51] I'm not a huge book reader because I find that most books are very horizontal.

[00:05:56] They don't go deep. They give you a lot of theory.

[00:05:59] They give you a lot of of of summary, but they don't teach you what to do, how to do it and why you're doing it.

[00:06:07] You should do. And they say, we're going to give you the next 20 steps or the next 10 steps or the next five steps.

[00:06:14] And those steps are all theoretical.

[00:06:16] You read each step and go, OK, now, how do I apply it when I walk out of the door of my house?

[00:06:21] The application.

[00:06:22] So you're saying you're saying no to books.

[00:06:24] But like, what would you say is like three things that someone could do that you think is actually very effective?

[00:06:29] The first thing we know it's not effective.

[00:06:31] What's very effective?

[00:06:32] What's very effective is the first thing is get coaching, pay for coaching.

[00:06:35] Mentors are great, but they're not going to tell you what you want to hear.

[00:06:38] They're not. They're going to tell you or sorry.

[00:06:40] They're going to tell you what you want to hear.

[00:06:41] They're not going to tell you what you absolutely need to hear.

[00:06:43] When you pay a coach, the coach is going to push on you.

[00:06:47] They're going to literally break you down.

[00:06:52] I wish I would have gotten real business coaching back in my 20s.

[00:06:58] And then, you know, obviously getting that coaching and applying it right.

[00:07:03] Being held accountable, learning from the person who's done it before you.

[00:07:06] Right.

[00:07:07] And you don't want to just pay for coaching for somebody who's moderately successful.

[00:07:11] You want to get coaching from somebody who is two levels above you in income.

[00:07:17] So if you're a six figure or you want to find an eight figure earner, right?

[00:07:22] Net worth, liquid net worth earner that that can coach you.

[00:07:25] If you're a seven figure person, you're going to want to get coaching from a nine figure person.

[00:07:30] Right.

[00:07:31] Because they've done it, especially if they're serial entrepreneur, if they're a serial

[00:07:37] starter in business, if they master the art of business.

[00:07:41] And then the second thing is I do attend a lot of conferences.

[00:07:44] I'm not a conference hopper because I'm very strategic and I'm very careful what conferences

[00:07:50] I go to.

[00:07:51] But going to like GT Fox's mega success.

[00:07:54] I've been there twice.

[00:07:55] Right.

[00:07:56] And and I wish I would have been there the last 15, to be quite honest with you.

[00:08:03] But me both on that one.

[00:08:04] Yeah.

[00:08:05] Right.

[00:08:05] And so you have to invest in your skill sets and abilities and learn from people who've

[00:08:11] gone before you.

[00:08:12] And that's the two things is is is real business conferences where you can walk out with information

[00:08:19] and start applying it immediately.

[00:08:21] And number two, get coaching.

[00:08:23] Absolutely pay for coaching.

[00:08:25] And I talked to so many sales reps.

[00:08:27] I talked to so many sales and commercialization leaders and they have mentors, but they don't

[00:08:33] pay for coaching.

[00:08:34] It makes no sense to me because those mentors are not going to break you down.

[00:08:39] They're not going to be tough on you.

[00:08:41] And when people are tough on you, they actually genuinely care.

[00:08:45] I don't like it.

[00:08:46] You know, discipline is not fun when it's happening to you.

[00:08:49] But man, that's the fruit that come out of it.

[00:08:52] It's awesome.

[00:08:52] All right.

[00:08:52] So you gave me two.

[00:08:54] Is there a third?

[00:08:54] I mean, to me, I'm one who learns usually by tons of failure.

[00:09:00] It would a third be to just get out there and do it and to take action with that.

[00:09:04] Is that like a fair?

[00:09:05] To go ahead, take the action and learn from the bumps and bruises.

[00:09:09] It's the bumps you climb on.

[00:09:10] Warren Wiersbe has a book called It's the Bumps You Climb On.

[00:09:13] If everything's smooth.

[00:09:14] Is that one of those books that you say you don't read?

[00:09:16] I'm just curious.

[00:09:17] I've had sleep and read that books.

[00:09:20] It's a theology book, but you could apply it in business easy.

[00:09:24] And for me, that book was a mindset transformation booklet.

[00:09:31] It actually started changing my mindset and the way I think about business.

[00:09:36] And that's what led me to get coaching.

[00:09:38] That's what led me to go to conferences where there are literal liquid net worth,

[00:09:44] eight, nine, and 10-figure entrepreneurs.

[00:09:47] So instead of me learning from six-figure corporate executives and entrepreneurs,

[00:09:53] I'm actually going to bypass that.

[00:09:55] And I'm going to listen to the eight, nine, and 10-figure people who doesn't matter what

[00:09:59] industry that they touch, their business turns to gold in that industry.

[00:10:03] Okay.

[00:10:04] So you and I were at the same program.

[00:10:07] I couldn't agree with you more on that point.

[00:10:10] So I'm just going to ask you this about sales.

[00:10:13] And again, I'm thinking in terms of how can this podcast help people who are not great at sales?

[00:10:19] You and I had a conversation recently, and I was kind of impressed with the method in which you were trying to get past the gatekeeper.

[00:10:28] You literally are taking it back old school, which I love the fact that you're doing that.

[00:10:32] I mean, this is straight out of the Chet Holmes playbook.

[00:10:35] Now, Chet Holmes was one of my mentors when I was coming up from business.

[00:10:38] I used to love Chet Holmes and Tony Robbins.

[00:10:42] You know, that's kind of where I grew a lot of my business coaching and acumen right there.

[00:10:48] But can you just tell us about what you're doing now versus what you used to do to actually get past the gatekeeper and get in with the decision makers?

[00:11:01] So I do a couple of things.

[00:11:02] Number one, I have literally, realistically, have probably made a commission about $1.5 million over 20 years by doing things the opposite of what corporate America does.

[00:11:16] And what I mean by that is I have taken a FedEx box.

[00:11:20] I've literally purchased a shoe, like a baby shoe.

[00:11:23] I put a little star that I've made and laminated it.

[00:11:30] And it says, I'm just trying to get your foot in the door.

[00:11:32] Would you meet with me for three minutes?

[00:11:34] And I'll staple my business card on.

[00:11:36] And I have been able to get so many introductory meetings and appointments with people that said, you know what?

[00:11:43] Somebody who's creative like that, of course, I'll meet with you for three minutes.

[00:11:46] But that three-minute meeting turned into a 20-minute meeting.

[00:11:49] Then my next meeting out of that turned into an hour meeting.

[00:11:52] And then, you know, business has exploded and I've got business from that.

[00:11:57] You've developed a relationship.

[00:11:58] Yeah, it's the baby shoe selling technique, right?

[00:12:01] But what I've also done in this age of email, email, email, email, everybody wants to sit behind a computer and shoot out emails for prospecting.

[00:12:12] I actually believe that nothing replaces face-to-face interaction.

[00:12:16] But if he can't get that face-to-face interaction and literally knock on doors, which is the secret to business success, not just selling success, but business success.

[00:12:26] I believe when everybody else is emailing, what I do is I send out a FedEx envelope with a letter and a brochure asking them to meet with me for three to six minutes.

[00:12:36] So I do the opposite of what everybody else is doing because everybody else is getting 50, 60, 80 emails an A.

[00:12:43] I know I am.

[00:12:43] I just delete them.

[00:12:44] I'm very good with that delete key.

[00:12:45] You and me and everybody else.

[00:12:47] And so I've actually gone back to like the 1980s style of sending physical letters.

[00:12:52] And my rate of connection is much higher.

[00:12:57] Well, I think the physical letters, if I can interrupt you real quick, I think the physical letters may be a bit deceiving because you're actually using FedEx or UPS.

[00:13:05] So I kind of see where you're coming from because I get junk mail and I tear it up all the time.

[00:13:11] I don't know if I've ever actually just ripped up a FedEx envelope without looking to see what's in it.

[00:13:17] So is that the secret that you're working?

[00:13:19] You will get 100% open rate on a FedEx envelope, a UPS envelope, or a U.S. mail priority envelope.

[00:13:25] However.

[00:13:26] You will also probably get 80 to 90%.

[00:13:28] You just send out a 9x12 white envelope, just first class mail with some type of stamp on it.

[00:13:36] In my world that says something about surgical information enclosed or digital healthcare information enclosed.

[00:13:45] Something that's on the outside of that envelope that makes them go, God, what is this?

[00:13:49] Right?

[00:13:49] Right?

[00:13:50] That's the key is to get in front of them in some way, shape, or form.

[00:13:54] And I find going the contrarian route is a little bit more expensive.

[00:13:58] It is.

[00:13:58] Your cost per lead and your cost per customer acquisition costs are going to be higher than just sending out email.

[00:14:05] But if you're paying somebody 60, 80, 90, $100,000 a year, you know, in a base salary plus commission, or if they're just commission only and they're emailing all day long.

[00:14:17] You know, I just say that sales is not just a numbers game.

[00:14:20] It's a game of skill.

[00:14:21] You know, people say that all the time.

[00:14:22] Well, sales is a numbers game.

[00:14:24] The more people you contact, the more opportunities.

[00:14:26] Well, that is and isn't true.

[00:14:28] Because you can, you could contact a thousand people and get two people.

[00:14:32] Well, yeah, if you're if you're if your envelope opening rate is 100 percent, which it probably isn't exactly 100 percent, but it's probably pretty high up there.

[00:14:40] Right.

[00:14:40] So in other words, you're you're taking a sales rep or yourself and you're you're getting at the decision makers you're trying to get to much more effectively than.

[00:14:52] Yeah, there is a cost to send the FedEx envelope or several of them compared to the waste of time and other resources.

[00:15:00] Now, email may be free, but time really isn't when you think about it.

[00:15:04] It's far more effective.

[00:15:05] I love where you've gone with this.

[00:15:06] Yeah.

[00:15:07] I mean, at the end of the day, I, you know, being a sales rep, being a middle sales manager, being a VP of sales and marketing, being a chief experience officer, all those all those titles and job responsibilities in the past have really afforded me to understand the commercialization process.

[00:15:24] And so part of the commercialization process is sales effectiveness.

[00:15:30] Right.

[00:15:30] And a lot of the sales training out there, excuse me, is not sales training.

[00:15:34] It's product training.

[00:15:36] Features and that is not selling.

[00:15:38] Selling is asking questions.

[00:15:41] The more questions you ask, the more that the potential prospect rationalizes and sees why they may need your product or service.

[00:15:48] Okay.

[00:15:49] So I'm going to transition a little bit here.

[00:15:52] And as I said, you know, for me, as I was growing my business, you know, my go to guys were Chet Holmes and Tony Robbins.

[00:15:59] I miss Chet Holmes.

[00:16:00] You know, he passed away several years ago.

[00:16:02] And I talked to his daughter, Amanda on Clubhouse a few times.

[00:16:05] I'm so impressed with Chet and I've yet to actually interact with Amanda.

[00:16:09] One of these days, I hope to.

[00:16:11] Ironically, on Twitter, every once in a while, I'll see Tony Robbins put something on Twitter and I'll literally put something, you know, at Tony Robbins.

[00:16:18] I sure miss Chet Holmes.

[00:16:20] And he actually will respond to me.

[00:16:22] And I think that's really cool because he and Chet had a very, I think, a pretty good relationship, at least publicly.

[00:16:28] But you've you've found a guy named J.T. Fox.

[00:16:32] Now, I had no idea who J.T. Fox was and you pushed me to to get to know who J.T. Fox is.

[00:16:40] And he's obviously made a pretty big impact in your life.

[00:16:44] Can you maybe tell whoever may be listening to this who J.T. Fox is?

[00:16:49] Because I've at least experienced a little bit of J.T. Fox.

[00:16:52] I'm very, very impressed.

[00:16:54] But your your experience is far bigger, a little bit longer lasting.

[00:16:58] And so, I mean, can you talk about your experience and maybe what is what's the biggest benefit that you've seen from his coaching so far and kind of who he is and what he does?

[00:17:06] Yeah. So I first met J.T. back in February during the whole pandemic.

[00:17:12] And I was listening to him and some other people on.

[00:17:16] He offered 30 minutes of free coaching and I took him up on that, me and some other people.

[00:17:21] In the first 30 minutes of coaching, he wasn't trying to sell me anything.

[00:17:25] He literally gave me ideas for me to put together a sales effectiveness and commercialization training program.

[00:17:35] And I was so impressed with the the advice.

[00:17:37] It was so applicable and so real and authentic that I decided to pay for coaching further on with him one on one.

[00:17:46] And then I ended up getting involved in some group coaching where he was coaching a group of people together.

[00:17:51] And then it's just grown from there.

[00:17:53] And I've been able to meet his billionaire partners, little business partners where they are liquid net worth 10 figure entrepreneurs.

[00:18:02] They not just built billion dollar companies, but, you know, J.T. always says, you know, if if you're not a millionaire, if you can't write a million dollar check without a bounce.

[00:18:11] Right. So and being able to access him and the people that he does business with has just been amazing.

[00:18:20] And quite frankly, he gave me an opportunity to build some immediate trust with him.

[00:18:26] And I've been able to do that.

[00:18:29] And I think it's just because I've not BS him.

[00:18:32] Right. I admit when I failed.

[00:18:34] I admit when I make mistakes.

[00:18:36] And and clearly he's done his due diligence on me.

[00:18:39] You know, when you're worth what he's worth and and have the resources that he has, not only time, money and people resources.

[00:18:48] He can find out who the Flubiezis are very, very quickly.

[00:18:53] And when I first met him in person in Houston in May of 2021, he was really interested in me being part of mega success and speaking on stage because of the med tech and health tech background that I had.

[00:19:08] And I had that opportunity and then obviously did it again this year in a different format.

[00:19:13] Instead of doing a speech, I was able to interview some business celebrities.

[00:19:18] So with that being said, JT has had a profound impact on me.

[00:19:22] My wife was extremely skeptical.

[00:19:24] She read all this stuff on the Internet that has turned out to be an absolute disgusting disgrace of what people say because they're they're making judgments without sound evidence.

[00:19:38] So just just to interrupt here, because my wife is also very skeptical.

[00:19:42] Can can you just confirm for my wife, as I'm sure she will listen to this, that when we were at mega success, this was not a multilevel marketing Amway convention.

[00:19:52] We did not learn how to sell dishwasher soap to our friends.

[00:19:57] No, we actually sold dishwasher soap to our enemies.

[00:20:01] Yeah.

[00:20:01] OK.

[00:20:01] Yeah, that did happen.

[00:20:02] No, there was no multilevel marketing.

[00:20:03] It was literally networking with six, seven, eight, nine and 10 figure person executives all the way from private equity CEOs to CEOs that have owned, you know, eight, nine, 10, 11 different businesses in 11 different industries.

[00:20:23] And all of them turn to gold.

[00:20:25] And what's interesting when you when you go to a conference like this and you're around these people, the questions you ask, how you conduct yourself and the value that you add in the conversations, those people are able to seek through the nonsense real quick.

[00:20:45] And when there is a no nonsense demeanor and conversation and content and value you provide, they see that value real quick.

[00:20:54] And I'm I'm so humbled that that I have literal eight, nine and 10 figure liquid take my phone calls.

[00:21:03] They respond to my emails.

[00:21:05] They know you by name.

[00:21:06] I mean, that's that's what was neat for me, because, I mean, I've known you a very long time.

[00:21:09] And it was very unique for me to be able to see, you know, as you said, extraordinarily, you know, successful, high net worth individuals.

[00:21:19] Hey, Craig T, how are you doing?

[00:21:20] As if you guys were just the greatest friends ever.

[00:21:22] That was very, you know, I was very impressed with that.

[00:21:26] That was crazy.

[00:21:27] And I think it's because they trust I'm not there to be a know it all.

[00:21:31] I'm there to learn from them.

[00:21:32] I haven't made it to where they are.

[00:21:34] I haven't because I've not been able to be put in the right vehicle to get where they are.

[00:21:39] Now, that's changing because of their coaching and the relationship and they see the value I bring.

[00:21:44] But having somebody like Hugh Hilton and JT Foxx and Billionaire Fred and Billionaire Rami,

[00:21:51] just those people to be to to request that they want to be friends on LinkedIn and Facebook.

[00:21:57] And they're you're not just requesting them to connect.

[00:22:01] They're actually requesting you in some cases.

[00:22:03] So it's just it's just super cool to be able to have the cell phones of some of these ultra high net worth serial entrepreneurs.

[00:22:10] And strategically, you know, every once in a while, I'll shoot a text and and say, hey, can you talk for 15 minutes?

[00:22:17] And in 14 and a half minutes, I'm winding it down, you know, and some of those people I still ask JT.

[00:22:22] Hey, is it OK if I give this person a quick call just to honor JT because I wouldn't have those relationships without JT.

[00:22:29] And so just to honor him, I'll still ask for permission, even though I may not need to.

[00:22:34] But that shows my dedication and my loyalty to JT as well.

[00:22:38] Well, that's a good way to not piss off people as well.

[00:22:42] Now, you did mention. Yeah, you did mention, you know, getting put in the right vehicle.

[00:22:47] Is it fair for me to tell people that you used to drive a Saab?

[00:22:50] I mean, I know that's embarrassing. Hey, that was my drink car.

[00:22:52] I'm sorry. That thing was I just don't understand that.

[00:22:56] You know, and then you went to Land Rover, which also made no sense.

[00:22:59] So that's that's Honda, baby, all day long.

[00:23:02] Reliable. Can't beat it. Acura.

[00:23:04] Beautiful version of a Honda. I'm just saying.

[00:23:06] So you mentioned commercialization a few times.

[00:23:08] I know this is this is something that you're you're you're heavily vested in moving towards in your life.

[00:23:13] Can you just briefly talk about that?

[00:23:16] Yeah. So, you know, commercialization really is nothing more than the process of taking a product or service.

[00:23:25] And available to the marketplace. It is right.

[00:23:29] People in corporate America and everything they love that it's not now high level complexity within the commercialization process,

[00:23:37] such as manufacturing and marketing and and regulatory processes, things like that, that you have to do depending in the industry that you're in.

[00:23:50] Commercialization is literally what brings in the income to the company so that people can get a paycheck and put food on the table and pay their mortgage.

[00:23:59] And so you personally are getting involved in helping other entrepreneurs and businesses, some of them actually large businesses.

[00:24:06] I know that we've spoken to just kind of work on the commercialization of their products.

[00:24:09] Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, there are a lot of pitfalls in the commercialization process.

[00:24:15] And everybody hits those pitfalls. Right. I think of when I say that, I think of the old Atari game called Pitfall. Right.

[00:24:23] And the little guys running and jumping and grabbing onto a rope and swinging over alligators and things like that.

[00:24:28] That literally is business. Thank you, Craig. You just showed our age. I appreciate it.

[00:24:32] 100%. I'm 48. What can I die?

[00:24:35] Because I remember playing those when they were new. So I'm just saying.

[00:24:38] Me too, actually. You know, that literally is business.

[00:24:43] And it's so awesome to have these eight, nine and 10 figure entrepreneurs say, you know what, Craig, you really get it.

[00:24:51] You really understand the commercialization process, not only in the med tech, healthcare, you know, technology world,

[00:24:57] but you could, you could help a company in any industry because you understand the fundamentals and the processes of any product or service from napkin drawing all the way to,

[00:25:11] to product launch into the marketplace and growth thereof.

[00:25:15] And that's, that's a great skill that you developed. Now we're going to have to wrap it up here.

[00:25:20] How can people follow you if they want to learn more or get in contact with you?

[00:25:23] You know, and, and are there any other projects you're working on that maybe you want people to know about?

[00:25:28] Yeah. So, I mean, at the end of the day, right now I'm heavily invested in telemedicine, not telehealth.

[00:25:34] There's a big difference between telemedicine and telehealth and I'm heavily invested in that.

[00:25:40] And, you know, there's some entrepreneurs that have some, some new technologies that they're wanting to either bring to the United States

[00:25:47] or help get a company to acquire or license their technology.

[00:25:53] And so I'm always helping them as well.

[00:25:54] The best way to get ahold of me is through my email.

[00:25:57] It's at medsearchconsulting at gmail.com.

[00:26:00] And you can also get on my website, medicalsalesgrowth.com.

[00:26:03] And medicalsalesgrowth.com, you can always click a little button there and schedule a half an hour meeting with me,

[00:26:10] either early in the morning or, or, or, or toward the evening.

[00:26:14] As usually during the day, I'm just slam doing stuff.

[00:26:17] And so that's the best way to get ahold of me.

[00:26:20] All right. Well, Craig, I really appreciate it.

[00:26:23] And we'll have to do this again sometime.

[00:26:25] And, you know, since, since we are, you know, great friends, I also look forward to seeing you.

[00:26:29] I need to get back down to Austin where the weather is a lot warmer than it is here in Pennsylvania.

[00:26:33] Come on down with your, with your, your airline operations company.

[00:26:38] You can come down here a lot more often. I know it.

[00:26:40] Well, I've proven that, but let's even get that scheduled.

[00:26:43] Well, thank you so much, Craig.

[00:26:44] You got it.

[00:26:44] See ya.

[00:26:45] Yeah.